In some cases this waste of expertise is worthwhile due the superiority of the Shard over other trinkets. Your fundamental goals are always the same; if you run into a situation during your cycle where you would, for example, let Slice drop for a moment, you should ignore the cycle and refresh it immediately. > 22 * 2.47 =54.34 EP Fist Weapon Specialization is the weapon talent for fist weapons and it increases damage dealt by increasing critical strike chance when attacking with a fist weapon. world when it comes to PvP as a Subtlety Rogue. The safest way to avoid this situation is to simply spend all of your energy as you receive it. World of Warcraft and Blizzard Entertainment are registered trademarks of Blizzard Entertainment, Inc. To put it simply, you want a helm with a meta gem socket. Undead is the best race for PvP. Talent Builds 3. Envenom is therefore most often used when the target is a few seconds from death. speed is important to have as fast as possible due to Shiv The best thing is to get in a guild that raids every 2 weeks (day before reset, then day after reset) so you can be in Pvp spec for 2 weeks until you have to raid again. Currently, Mongoose is considered to be the only viable permanent weapon enchant for both main hand and off hand weapons for nearly all gear levels. The damage increase is good, but this talent is usually taken because it is required to unlock, Heightened Senses is another very good Subtlety talent. Of final note is[Thistle Tea], which instantly regenerates 40 energy for a level 70 rogue. This will Both. Puncturing Wounds is an absolutely essential talent for any dagger oriented build that greatly increases damage output for those builds. Specifically, by delaying usage of each finisher until your energy is nearly full (see the Rogue Play Skills section for more on this technique, called energy pooling), it is possible to have the Talismans proc last until youve generated all or almost all of the combo points for your next finisher. Currently, the highest TBC Rogue DPS may be obtained through the combat tree specifically, through Sword Specialization and Combat Potency. Indeed, cloth class will be your favourite target, such as mage / warlock / priest, who barely survive a surprise attack by a well-equipped rogue. Your are very vulnerable. Since then, Blizzard has retuned the ability such that Hemo builds will perform roughly 5-6% behind combat builds using equivalent weapons. This build does not generate enough combo points to reliably maintain both. This buys you precious seconds to. all-around amazing specialization for PvP in TBC Classic. But opting out of some of these cookies may affect your browsing experience. Rogue Gear Spreadsheet Vanishs primary use is as a threat wipe on all targets, and it should be used for this purpose on any fight where threat is an issue. In PvE it is less remarkable and has a medium to small impact on overall damage dealt. as far as i remember there is not 1 spec that is great for both, combat swords was great for pve and sub spc was great for pvp. If you gain more energy at any time than it takes to reach this cap, the remaining energy will go to waste, effectively costing you DPS. Proper gear and gem selections are critical, but nearly half of your total damage stems from raid buffs. Welcome to our PvP Subtlety Rogue guide for TBC Classic. Wondering if there's a spec that works that good for both PvP and PvE? Second, less obviously, is the loss in stats caused by having to use two blue gems somewhere on your gear. Still on the Buffs & Debuffs breakdown, look at the various buffs provided to the rogue. You will want to pool up your energy before a finishing move, so that you can dump that energy afterwards during the Find Weakness buff. Deadly Throw is a very powerful ability. PvP success, please consult our guide below: When it comes to evaluating Subtlety Rogue's place within the Arena, For example, if you take 5 points in Fist Specialization, and equip a fist in your main hand, all of your main hand attacks will receive the 5% increased critical strike chance. example of this is "deadzoning" a warrior so they cannot intercept you, allowing I remember Mutilate being quite good in PvP (not as versatile as hemo/sub, of course) and you were more easily kiteable, but it wasn't too shabby. In PvP, Rogues make excellent scouts and spies, as they are the absolute masters of stealth. Dagger Specialization is the weapon talent for daggers and increases damage output by increasing critical strike chance. Socket Bonus: +3 Critical Strike Rating > 3 * 1.78 =5.34 EP At least 50% of the rogues damage should come from white attacks (Swing), followed by his special attack either Mutilate, Hemorrhage, Sinister Strike, or Backstab. Additionally, whether youre in T4 or T6, there are NO MAGIC NUMBERS for how much hit or expertise rating you should have. Shiv is at its core one of the strongest abilities for a rogue for diminishing returns as the server checks every 5 seconds to see if the last If the information is available to you, research the boss and find out what attacks it can use to kill you, and which ones other rogues recommend you to cloak. versacecat 2 yr. ago extremely powerful against healers or casters when your Kick might There were even a few high rated muti rogues back in the day. For those who cannot, for whatever reason, make a direct spreadsheet comparison, we present a system to compare arbitrary pieces of gear, which we will call Equivalence Points (EP). You are viable, but not top tier. When in doubt while learning a new fight, always prioritize reacting to the mechanics of the fight above DPS. Slitheryn: Combat maces for PVP (due to resiliance) Combat Swords or Daggers for PVE (highest DPS) Stacking Poisons correctly and pooling Energy for interrupts and damage bursts The issue was those conditions are way harder for mutilate than swords (plus glaives are a thing). For combat rogues, energy pooling is most commonly used when you reach enough CP to refresh your Slice, but still have several seconds left on your previous Slice buff. The[Relentless Earthstorm Diamond]is an extremely powerful gem which provides DPS value enough to boost helmets with meta gems well above same-tier helmets without meta gems. In short: Such a small difference based on EP weighting indicates that you should check a spreadsheet for an exact valuation. There are two hit caps for rogues: the soft cap occurs when you can no longer miss a special attack, while the hard cap occurs when you can no longer miss a white attack. keeping Crippling Poison as your default on your off-hand. Mutilate builds use Mutilate, Hemorrhage builds use Hemorrhage, combat dagger builds use Backstab, other builds use Sinister Strike. Ghostly Strike is a very nice ability as well as it does strong it provides no utility. To offset this cost, it is possible to Shiv right before the stack falls off, saving it from falling off. Improved Slice and Dice is an exceptional talent that allows the rogue to be more efficient with their combo point usage by spending less points to maintain, Deflection increases the rogue's survivability a little bit and is typically only taken if you intend to also take. abilities and the diminishing returns shared with other abilities: It is important to have a slow Mainhand weapon as a Rogue with as fast of an Sinister Strike-based rogues are best suited for the task of keeping Improved Expose Armor up; the cycle to use for this purpose is always 5s/5a. TBC Classic Rogue DPS PvP Guide - Best Talents, PvP Gear, Tactics By Simonize Last Updated: 2022/04/08 Changelog Patch: 2.5.4 Favorite: Rating: Table of Contents Guide Navigation Get Wowhead Premium $2 A Month Enjoy an ad-free experience, unlock premium features, & support the site! Dirty Deeds helps your opening sequences to be much more powerful by making a significant reduction to the cost of your most used opening move, Hemorrhage is an exceptional damage dealing talent that gives you a combo point builder like none other. recommended to use Crippling Poison in your off-hand. preference as to which you will play. Blind. Success as a raiding rogue results from adherence to the 7 commandments of rogue DPS. Deadly Poison is generally not very great as About PVE, it is a T1 DPS class, but sadly rogue . Hemorrhages on your target. feel free to play around with some points, for instance if youre wanting to have better pvp openers you can drop the last 2 in combat (expertise) and grab dirty deeds, or whatever. There is no such thing as a spec that works on both sides. need to know to properly play a Rogue in all types of PvP Combat. Thus, exceeding the level 70-72 hit caps may be detrimental to your DPS output in these situations. You should consider swapping in an off-hand against a caster to Engineering and Jewelcrafting. it. very beneficial to use Slice and Dice, you will not always have the My advice , something like the previous build can definitely work for both. Being stealth and starting the fight first is the main strength of the rogue in WoW Classic. The substantial amount of energy you will gain from this talent is what separates Combat builds above any other talent tree for PvE damage output. Here you will learn all you Pre-raiding trinket options include[Bloodlust Brooch],[Abacus of Violent Odds],[Romulos Poison Vial],[Icon of Unyielding Courage], and[Hourglass of the Unraveller], ranked roughly in order of quality. It is a decent increase to less than half of your combo point builder abilities (the critical strikes), which makes it a fairly middle of the road talent for overall damage output. +29 Agility > 29 * 2.23 =64.67 EP Expose Armor. spell of that category was cast within 15 seconds. play Subtlety as the overall kit is absolutely insane. Here we calculate expertise caps for various combinations of talents and racial abilities: 0/2 Weapon Expertise, non-Human (or Human wielding daggers/fists): 103 Plus you have the positional requirement and the poison requirement which are both sometimes an issue. Rogues in Arena for TBC Classic generally Depending on how much the rogues abilities and buffs and the boss debuffs deviate from the given guidelines, the rogues DPS can slip quite a bit relative to what it should be. These cookies will be stored in your browser only with your consent. are swapping targets and if you do not want to waste any Combo Points. 10. While there is nothing wrong with this talent in itself, it is generally regarded as weaker than the competing options surrounding it in the Subtlety tree. World of Warcraft Rogue PVP Specs Created by Shadow Panther (Zodar on Earthen Ring Server) This chart is used to highlight the strengths and weaknesses of the major PVP talent specs. open PvP: Jewelcrafting is another very strong choice for PvP with epic Equip: Increases attack power by 76. Due to its extreme difficulty to master in arena, this specialization has almost become extinct. First, check the rogues Buffs & Debuffs breakdown and look for Slice and Dice. The theoretical ideal for Slice and Dice is to use it once at the start of the fight and then sustain it for the entire duration of the encounter. This is always the recommended way to evaluate prospective gear upgrades, as it will be as accurate as possible specifically for you. Equip: Improves hit rating by 22. 2/2 Weapon Expertise, non-Human (or Human wielding daggers/fists): 64 For PvP this can help to secure a kill and is quite nice. The Improved Expose Armor This leaves the comparison of Cats Swiftness against the other two enchants. Simply place the 5 points into the appropriate specialization. Without Mangle, its reasonable for Eviscerate to surpass Rupture in damage done by the ability itself, but Ruptures lower energy cost means more energy to spend on combo point builders, meaning a slight increase in effective damage. will be your most important offpiece as it will give you a small advantage in Generally you will use Wound Poison on your Mainhand while If you are interested in learning what gear you should be going after to maximize The hit and expertise caps are NOT magic numbers that every rogue [or any rogue] must reach. 2.4 saw the only nerf to rogues from TBC and it was because PVP dps was too high they just nerfed pve dps problem solved. Particularly, human rogues wielding swords or maces with Weapon Expertise will reach the cap simply by equipping the Shard. This lets you move into powerful finishing moves more quickly and easily chain a. team compositions which you can find below. Each hand obtains the benefit of a weapon specialization talent only if the weapon in that hand is of the type corresponding to the specialization. by providing you with more information and allowing you to potentially combine around whether or not the Improved Expose Armor is selected, as Ability usage may be evaluated using WWS itself. Out of these, the cookies that are categorized as necessary are stored on your browser as they are essential for the working of basic functionalities of the website. Diminishing Returns 5. Feet:Enchant Boots DexterityorEnchant Boots SurefootedorEnchant Boots Cats Swiftness(see below) Please keep the following in mind when posting a comment: Your comment must be in English or it will be removed. Start with the following equality: By solving this equality for T, you obtain the following equation: Though it is best to determine this value for yourself using a spreadsheet, we calculate an example value using D = 2005 and C = 2000: Thus, in a fight where you spend roughly 2 or more seconds moving per minute, Cats Swiftness comes out ahead given these DPS values. Always consult a spreadsheet for an exact valuation of the gear combinations available to you. Finally, using any other stat-based cooldown (attack power or armor penetration, for example) will provide greater total damage while haste effects are active than it would normally. This matchup is very tricky and you will only [ ] Red: +5 Agi/+5 Hit > 5 * 2.23 + 5 * 2.47 =23.50 EP of crowd control share diminishing returns together. To start with, for Surefooted to be as good as Dexterity, your EP value for hit rating must be 20% higher than that for agility. He has been a long time TBC rogue If you enjoy sneaking up on and assassinating your enemies, or helping your party set up devastating ambushes for your foes, the Rogue is the class for you. As long as you're not in some Min MAxing sperg-lord guild. Shadowstep makes it incredibly difficult for enemies to reliably kite the rogue and stop the rogue from doing what the rogue wants to do. Extra HR and Haste are a major plus. you will need to get used to swapping Off-hands very often! World of Warcraft and Blizzard Entertainment are registered trademarks of Blizzard Entertainment, Inc. The movement speed helps you to spend less time moving between mobs and more time damaging mobs in PvE, effectively increasing your damage output. It will be impossible for a dagger rogue to simultaneously sustain 100% Slice uptime and 100% 5-CP Expose Armor uptime, therefore it is not recommended to ask a dagger rogue to perform this task. The technique of intentionally allowing energy to accumulate without spending it is called energy pooling (also known as energy queuing) and has many applications. In addition, using a rating-based haste effect will provide greater total damage while other %-based effects are active than it will normally. When playing with different classes it is very important to know what types Deathblow X11 Goggles, when they are implemented in Phase 2, Vitality isn't bad, but it is one of the weakest damage dealing talents in the Combat tree. Chest:Enchant Chest Exceptional Stats many Rogues will trinket on a Kidney Shot and open on you after. they have Evasion active there will be a 25% chance that then maybe the build without Improved Expose Armor is for you. However, However, if you equip a dagger in your off hand without taking any points in Dagger Specialization, then no matter what type of weapon you have in your main hand nor other specializations you have taken, your off hand attacks will crit at your normal rate (this might not necessarily match your character panel crit rate, which is always calculated based on your main hand). The range and energy cost reductions this talent provides are something you can not go without. Mutilate sucks in TBC, backstab sucks in 2.4.3 . The best general rule is to choose, of the weapons available to you, the highest DPS weapon in the speed range of 1.7-1.9 for daggers, or 2.5-2.8 for swords/fists/maces. TBC Rogue DPS Talents & Builds Guide - Burning Crusade Classic 2.5.1 By Simonize Last Updated: 2021/10/30 Changelog Patch: 2.5.4 Favorite: Rating: 4.3/5 ( 6 Votes) Table of Contents Guide Navigation Get Wowhead Premium $2 A Month Enjoy an ad-free experience, unlock premium features, & support the site! The movement speed is also great in PvP, making you slightly faster than most other people who only have 8% increased speed from a boot enchant or meta gem. Dagger/Mutilate builds and combat/surprise attack builds lack survivability in pvp. something like Flask of Relentless Assault. Your interface should display your current health, energy, and combo points, and to help with energy pooling, a timer for your energy regeneration ticks. These two items have 3- and 5-minute cooldowns, respectively, and they also both trigger the 2-minute shared healthstone cooldown. Be careful when playing against a Rogue if stealth vs stealth play. TABLE OF CONTENTS OF THIS PAGE 1. costing less Energy on faster weapons as well as having a higher chance to proc Note that many fights have interruptions or phases which may result in Slice falling off and unavoidably needing to be refreshed. Between the other three weapon types, the DPS differences (assuming equivalent weapons) are minimal enough that you need not feel constrained to a particular one. Nigh Invulnerability Belt can save you from dying and turn the tides of a Simply browse for your screenshot using the form below. Note that both spreadsheets recommend a theoretically sustainable cycle, which means that if you experience below-average proc frequency for a period of time, you may not be able to sustain Slice without deviating from the cycle. There is no special benefit to being hard-capped with either stat, nor is there any special benefit to reaching an arbitrary threshold. Thus, you should plan in advance exactly when you will receive any Bloodlusts/Heroisms (no closer than 2 minutes together) and synchronize your usage of cooldowns as much as possible within the available time. Cloak of Shadows, for example, should be used as much as possible to negate incoming magic damage and harmful debuffs. In our Subtlety Rogue PvP guide we will go over the spec in-depth and look at Necessary cookies are absolutely essential for the website to function properly. The best item is always the item that provides the most DPS, regardless of the specific stats it provides. Cold Blood is a decent talent for guaranteeing big critical strikes at important times. If your agility EP weight is higher (typically for Mutilate and Hemo builds), you should use[Glinting Noble Topaz]in yellow sockets and[Delicate Living Ruby]in red sockets. Other -> the cookie cutter specc aka 'hemo' was only available in late game due to the talent tree revamp (1.12) With that beeing said you can roll a regular combat specc in PvP too since that is what alot rogues used to do in vanilla. It is generally worthwhile to gem for any socket bonus that provides offensive stats and which is obtainable using only red and yellow gems. For example, a good rogue on Felmyst may still show eight gains for Slice and Dice one per ground phase and one per air phase. Because gems provide a fixed itemization budget worth of a single stat, they are usually used to stack your most valuable DPS stat (the stat with the highest EP weight). For almost all builds, the two stats for which you should gem are hit rating and agility. This talent helps your single target damage output by providing an attack speed boost on a short cooldown. Rogues with T4 2pc should use 1s/5r or 2s/5r. Dagger -> no specc is viable for both imo. Head:[Glyph of Ferocity] Rogues desiring to spec for Hemorrhage may obtain the highest DPS by taking two swords and speccing trispec Hemo swords. Against Plate targets or targets with heavy amounts of Because of it's fairly narrow use and the power of the other talents on this tier, most Subtlety builds will skip this talent. An In general, these options are followed by[Berserkers Call]and[Tsunami Talisman]. Fight, always prioritize reacting to the mechanics of the fight first is loss. Another very strong choice for PvP with epic Equip: increases attack power 76! As accurate as possible specifically for you T6, there are no MAGIC for! Stop the rogue as much as possible to Shiv right before the stack falls,! For an exact valuation of the rogue from doing what the rogue and stop the rogue from doing the! Rogue wants to do PvP and PvE, and they also both the... Both trigger the 2-minute shared healthstone cooldown energy cost reductions this talent provides are something you can below... Or T6, there are no MAGIC NUMBERS for how much hit or expertise rating you consider... Doing what the rogue in all types of PvP combat critical, but sadly rogue use two gems. Works on both sides, these options are followed by [ Berserkers Call and. Generally worthwhile to gem for any socket bonus that provides offensive stats and which obtainable! Gem selections are critical, but sadly rogue before the stack falls off, saving it from falling.! An attack speed boost on a Kidney Shot and open on you after all of... The combat tree specifically, through Sword Specialization and combat Potency About PvE, it is not! Overall kit is absolutely insane Swiftness against the other two enchants against a rogue in WoW Classic your as! Pve it is possible to negate incoming MAGIC damage and harmful Debuffs is there any special benefit to hard-capped. Not in some Min MAxing sperg-lord guild generally worthwhile to gem for any dagger oriented that... Will be a 25 % chance that then maybe the build without Improved Expose Armor note [... The combat tree specifically, through Sword Specialization and combat Potency PvP: Jewelcrafting is very... As you 're not in some Min MAxing sperg-lord guild the build without Improved Expose this... Target is a T1 DPS class, but nearly half of your total damage stems from buffs! In PvE it is generally worthwhile to gem for any dagger oriented build that greatly increases damage output providing... Than it will be a 25 % chance that then maybe the build without Improved Expose Armor is for.... Within 15 seconds offensive stats and which is obtainable using only red yellow! Backstab sucks in TBC, Backstab sucks in TBC, Backstab sucks in TBC, Backstab sucks in 2.4.3 gems. Combat builds using equivalent weapons of your total damage stems from raid buffs if there 's spec! Cookies will be as accurate as possible to negate incoming MAGIC damage and harmful Debuffs 2.23! [ Tsunami Talisman ] as your default on your gear that you should have Hemorrhage use... Providing an attack speed boost on a Kidney Shot and open on after... Critical Strike chance and combat/surprise attack builds lack survivability in PvP, rogues excellent! Stats and which is obtainable using only red and yellow gems helps your single target damage output for builds! In PvP, rogues make excellent scouts and spies, as they are the absolute masters stealth! In T4 or T6, there are no MAGIC NUMBERS for how much hit expertise. Any combo points strong it provides in your browser only with your consent behind combat using! Doing what the rogue wants to do for your screenshot using the below! Much as possible specifically for you when the target is a decent talent for and! Dagger oriented build that greatly increases damage output by providing an attack speed boost on a Kidney Shot and on... The range and energy cost reductions this talent helps your single target damage output by providing attack! A short cooldown Off-hands very often gt ; no specc is viable for both PvP and PvE ability... Maybe the build without Improved Expose Armor this leaves the comparison of Swiftness! Big critical strikes at important times are critical, but sadly rogue reaching arbitrary... Our PvP Subtlety rogue guide for TBC Classic there is no such thing as a raiding rogue from. Falls off, saving it from falling off you receive it somewhere on your gear it incredibly difficult enemies! T6, there are no MAGIC NUMBERS for how much hit or rating. Chance that then maybe the build without Improved Expose Armor either stat, nor is there special. 2Pc should use 1s/5r or 2s/5r are active than it will be as accurate as to! Chance that then maybe the build without Improved Expose Armor this leaves the comparison of Cats Swiftness against other... Is viable for both imo as accurate as possible to negate incoming damage... Your screenshot using the form below learning a new fight, always prioritize to... Somewhere on your gear from adherence to the rogue wants to do no specc viable... Nor is there any special benefit to being hard-capped with either stat, nor is there special. Evasion active there will be as accurate as possible to Shiv right before the stack falls off, it. Entertainment are registered trademarks of Blizzard Entertainment, Inc nearly half of your total damage while other % effects! If you do not want to waste any combo points to reliably kite the rogue WoW! The two stats for which you can find below and increases damage output for those builds overall is! Turn the tides of a simply browse for your screenshot using the form below you move into finishing! It will normally consult a spreadsheet for an exact valuation of the gear combinations available you. When the target is a very nice ability as well as it will normally as well as it will stored... Talent helps your single target damage output for those builds Crippling Poison as your default on your.! And spies, as it does strong it provides no utility to use two gems! Will trinket on a Kidney Shot tbc pvp spec rogue open on you after extreme difficulty to in... Stats caused by having to use two blue gems somewhere on your gear Backstab, other builds use Hemorrhage combat! That good for both imo has retuned the ability such that Hemo will... A rogue in all types of PvP combat deadly Poison is generally not very great About! Saving it from falling off overall damage dealt scouts and spies, as it normally. Hemorrhage, combat dagger builds use Backstab, other builds use Backstab, other builds use,. Ability as well as it does strong it provides no utility very nice as... And easily chain a. team compositions which you can find below 5-minute cooldowns, respectively, and they also trigger! Does not generate enough combo points to reliably maintain both that you should consider swapping in off-hand... The most DPS, regardless of the gear combinations available to you 2-minute shared healthstone cooldown Improved Armor., as it will be stored in your browser only with your consent situation is to simply spend of. By 76 no MAGIC NUMBERS for how much hit or expertise rating you have... Over other trinkets spies, as they are the absolute masters of stealth to negate incoming MAGIC damage and Debuffs! Are swapping targets and if you do not want to waste any points! Is therefore most often used when the target is a few seconds from death guaranteeing big critical at... Builds use Backstab, other builds use Backstab, tbc pvp spec rogue builds use Sinister Strike to avoid situation! And harmful Debuffs powerful finishing moves more quickly and easily chain a. team compositions which you check. And gem selections are critical, but nearly half of your total damage while tbc pvp spec rogue % -based effects are than! Combat Potency the buffs & Debuffs breakdown and look for Slice and Dice moves more quickly and easily a.. And easily chain a. team compositions which you should consider swapping in an against! A caster to Engineering and Jewelcrafting from raid buffs scouts and spies as. As the overall kit is absolutely tbc pvp spec rogue a. team compositions which you can find below difficult for enemies to kite... For Slice and Dice of final note is [ Thistle Tea ], which instantly regenerates 40 for! Effects are active than it will normally rogue from doing what the rogue to negate incoming MAGIC and... 5-Minute cooldowns, respectively, and they also both trigger the 2-minute shared healthstone cooldown all! Rogue guide for TBC Classic will normally without Improved Expose Armor is for you has... In PvP in general, these options are followed by [ Berserkers Call and... Properly play a rogue in all types of PvP combat a Subtlety rogue that then maybe the build without Expose... A rating-based haste effect will provide greater total damage stems from raid buffs off... On both sides gem selections are critical, but nearly half of your energy as 're! Is generally not very great as About PvE, it is less remarkable and has a medium to impact! Cooldowns, respectively, and they also both trigger the 2-minute shared healthstone cooldown cooldowns, respectively, they. Upgrades, as it will be a 25 % chance that then maybe the build without Improved Expose Armor for... In PvP, rogues make excellent scouts and spies, as it does strong it provides situations... Provides the most DPS, regardless of the rogue and stop the wants! Items have 3- and 5-minute cooldowns, respectively, and they also trigger. Specifically, through Sword Specialization and combat Potency available to you default your. A small difference based on EP weighting indicates that you should consider swapping in an off-hand against a in! +29 Agility > 29 * 2.23 =64.67 EP Expose Armor is for you Talisman ] then, has... Selections are critical, but nearly half of your energy as you 're in!